95 Comments

1. Robert McCairns:
   November 2nd, 2007 at 8:10 am

   Hi

   I am Scottish and run a trading company in Guangzhou China. Today I visited a factory who manufacture LED lighting for bars and clubs etc. I was really looking for some advice as after reading you web site I think you are an expert in these products. Basically do you think they are any good as I am considering marketing their product.

   Thanks in advance

   Robert McCairns

2. Rob:
   November 3rd, 2007 at 2:58 pm

   Hi Robert

   LED stage lighting products are a growth industry and though we can’t comment on the quality your manufacturers LED products, the availability of cheaper LED stage lights from the Far East is to be welcomed.

   In the UK professional lighting industry we currently use LED products of trusted brands that gtry to keep us happy, both with light quality and build quality. The availability of spare parts and after sales service is also important.

   The bar and club market have slightly different needs particularly price, ease of use and the ability to make the LED kit work without investing time and money in complex control systems or expensive technicians.

   There is room in the fledgling market of LED stage lighting for a range of products for different uses and budgets. As with everything, understanding your market is the key…

   Good luck for the future.

3. Martin Davies:
   February 5th, 2008 at 7:45 am

   Hi

   I am thinking of buying a set of Showtec LED Powerbricks and four source four spots using a Zero 88 Dimmer. Could you please suggest what control desk I could use. I have a limited budget this this.

   Many Thanks

   Martin

4. Rob:
   February 5th, 2008 at 2:53 pm

   Hi Martin,

   Although I have not used the Showtec LED Powerbricks, they are similar to some other small LED lighting battens, such as the ChromaQ ColorBlock. The are controlled via a power supply that can accept a DMX control signal.

   LED lighting fixtures are fairly simple, so it is still quite easy to control them from a simple DMX desk, even without specific intelligent lighting features. As most LED products are controlled by few DMX channels (I think the Powerbricks use a maximum of 3 to 5 channels) you could even use a 12 way manual DMX lighting desk.

   Another budget solution is to look into a cheap USB to DMX dongles and PC stage lighting controllers.

5. Martin Davies:
   February 9th, 2008 at 7:33 am

   Hi Rob

   Thanks for this I will look into this PC software.

   Martin

6. Shaka Brown:
   March 26th, 2008 at 11:24 am

   I am looking for LED lights that I can use with a portable battery that can be used to shoot videos when lighting conditions are not ideal. Some shoots are outdoors, where the light is more of a fill, though sometimes it will be indoors where the light will be a key. What would you recommend for a portable rig? I don’t mind carrying a battery as large as a car battery if I have to, and the video shoots rarely last over 3 or 4 hours, with the lights being turned on and off. Am I dreaming or is this something feasible?

7. Rob:
   March 28th, 2008 at 10:01 am

   Shaka,

   I suspect that this kind of portable video light will become more available. I am not sure if you can get larger key light sized units at the moment.
   You probably know that small handheld LED battery powered lights video lights with diffusion and barndoors are available for ENG work etc. I know that Sony make some.

   If you find a source of larger LED video shoot lighting, post back here and let us know.

8. De Anarky:
   May 8th, 2008 at 7:07 pm

   I am looking for an LED equivalent of a 50/75W halogen stem spot for lighting paintings for art shows. Are there such lights available? How do they compare in price and effectiveness?

9. Rob:
   May 14th, 2008 at 8:35 am

   @ De Anarky

   You should search for MR16 replacement LED. These are a direct swap for the “stalk lights” halogen light bulbs you refer to. Sorry for late reply.

10. oz:
    May 16th, 2008 at 9:44 am

    Hi,

    I’m putting a little project together for a musician friend – he’s about to launch a ‘low carbon footprint album’ (I know) and has asked for a bike onstage to power one stage spotlight of some form. The idea is to con someone in the audience to pedal like mad for a while.
    Anyway – I reckon I can get about 30v out of the bike (I’m not sure of the power or current specs yet).

    Has anyone got any ideas on what kind of light I could use??

11. Rob:
    May 16th, 2008 at 11:24 am

    Hi Oz,

    Sounds like a great concept. Some cheap LED units would give you a load of bang for your bike (sorry).

    The main thing to look out for is Voltage Regulation and Current Delivery of the bike generator. 12V LED fixtures, for instance, don’t like having 5 volts to 30 volts jumping about all over the place.

    Having sorted out a regular voltage and a decent amount of current from your generator, you can pretty much use any low voltage LED kit that fits the bill.

12. cory:
    June 3rd, 2008 at 7:48 pm

    I am designing a youth theater for my churches youth ministry. I want to get a truss with some lights on it and even have maybe some LED washes or tubes on stage. Any ideas on what lights to have on the truss? Also if it would be a good idea to get LC Panels from Martin?

13. Rob:
    June 4th, 2008 at 9:32 am

    Hi Cory

    If you are starting with nothing, LED fixtures/ LC panels are not first on your shopping list. They are expensive “luxuries” that need complex control systems – the sort of equipment that you add when you already have the basics.

    Spotlights – Fresnels, PC or Ellipsoidals are standard lights for lighting a stage. The size/power you need depends on the distance to the stage. Or you can use a number of PAR64′s.

    LED fixtures are good for washing colour on sets, walls and architecture. You can also use them as truss warmers or to make drum kits look good. LED lighting is not so good for lighting a stage or people for the reason in this article.

    Thanks for your comment.

14. Claire:
    June 4th, 2008 at 2:51 pm

    i have a PROLIGHT DMX BABY JC1 – PROFESSIONAL 64 CHANNEL LIGHTING CONTROLLER and 2 KAM LED 800′s – i am trying to get the led’s programmed and the manual is hard work – i really need some help setting these up – i just want them to work together on either side of a stage or dj rig – HELP!!!! xx

15. Rob:
    June 5th, 2008 at 3:23 pm

    Hi Claire

    If you email the user manuals of both the LED’s and the Controller, I will have a look and try to “translate” the important bits. Email is on the About page.

    The trouble cheap kit, LED or anything else, are the awful user manuals. Cheap equipment is usually bought by people who need the most help and a lot of the equipment in this market is less than intuitive.

    Perhaps there is a market for “translated” stage lighting equipment user manuals….

16. Kaiel:
    June 15th, 2008 at 6:53 pm

    Would you recommend LED for Cyclorama/Backdrop lighting? If so any recommendations for fixtures?

17. Rob:
    June 16th, 2008 at 7:47 pm

    Kaiel

    LED battens are designed light wide ares like cycs. I quite like the common Thomas Pixeline 1044 but it depends on your budget. Cheaper battens have problems with producing even colour washes.

    LED colours are have a certain “look” to them that might seem out of place with some traditional theatre lighting.

    I have also seen a number of floodlight style LED fixtures but wouldn’t say that they replaces a single cell cyc flood.

    Thanks for your question.

18. Nichola:
    June 18th, 2008 at 4:50 pm

    Hi, I am currently setting up my own band to tour with. We are looking to start with bar-type venues but would need lighting that would look professional because we are hoping to progress to play bigger venues. Unfortunately, lighting is not my expertise. I have heard about the LED lighting and have been told that it is the new up-and-coming thing. I want a professional look but do not know where to start. Which are the best makes of LED lighting to buy? How much does a good professional quality LED can cost? How many would you suggest I need to light up a band of about 5+ members. I would be extremely grateful for your comments. Many thanks, Nichola

19. Rob:
    June 21st, 2008 at 8:13 pm

    Nichola

    LED lighting seems new and exciting and has many benefits, listed above. Starting a small Band Lighting Rig , you would be better off with some cheap PAR56 cans (similar to the 1000W PAR 64, but use less power)some lighting stands and coloured gels.

    These are cheap, easy to use and maintain plus you don’t need a great deal of complex control equipment. A small bar band lighting rig can be as small as 2 stands, 8 PAR 56s and some cables. Many suppliers package up several “small band lighting kits” that have everything you need.

    Having said that, you can buy dirt cheap LED domestic light fittings and benefit from their low power/heat properties. Being creative with what ever you do buy will make your lighting more professional.

    Thanks for your question.

20. Marie:
    June 23rd, 2008 at 12:04 pm

    Hi Rob

    A company I work with takes plays and monologues into nightclubs. Having just spent a hectic couple of sessions getting to grips with my first Avo (Azure Shadow) and somewhat unpredictable Martin Macs I’ve been told that much of the system is going to be changed to LED fixtures. The club don’t employ any kind of technician, and haven’t got the concept of keeping hold of manuals (despite me asking several times)- is there a beginners guide to working with LED fixtures or would that be specific to the fixtures/ control system? I’d like to know where to start looking if I start getting stuck.

    I should say I’m a recent lighting design graduate and have had more practise programming generics.

21. Rob:
    June 23rd, 2008 at 9:41 pm

    Hi Marie
    LED fixtures are generally simpler to use than full moving lights, like the MACs. There is less to control and think
    about when programming. Assuming that the newly installed fixtures will be patched to the clubs Azure, you only really
    need to know:

    - Where the LED fixtures are patched on the Azure. Which buttons select them.
    - what you can do with them ie. Red Green Blue, Strobe, Dimmer etc. You can find this out by selecting the LED fixtures
    and then pressing the attribute buttons (beam, colour, effect etc) and reading what appears at the bottom of the screen
    reffering to the encoders (wheels). (BTW if, for some reason, the Azure you are using doesn’t have a screen, get one. You can’t really use the desk without it).
    - If the fixture personality the desk is using is HTP or LTP. Why you need to know is briefly explained in Led Lighting Control

    If you are going to be the one doing the patching , you need to find out a bit more such as:

    - The make/model and running mode (often fixtures have different mode setting which affect their control channel mapping)
    of the LED fixtures to get the correct Azure fixture
    personality from the Avo website.

    - The DMX start channels of the fixtures so you can assign them on the desk.

    Then off you go, press clear – select LED fixtures – choose “colour” – wind up desired look – hit “record” followed by
    the plackback button you want to assign the look too. If you have managed to get your Macs programmed, you will have no
    problems with the LED kit. BTW the Azure is pretty awful for easy controlling a decent number of generics.

    If you have any specific questions on Avo desks – even the Azure (which I am not a big fan of due to it’s ability to make
    experienced Pearl users (ie – me) look like a fumbling idiot) – come back and we can help you out.
    Thanks for visiting.

22. Steve Black:
    July 7th, 2008 at 9:45 pm

    I am considering getting a PAR 64 LED setup for my band. We do small pubs/clubs. Space is usually quite tight and budget is tight also! Priority is to light up singer but to get a bit of scatter for rest of us…?

    What do you suggest?

23. Rob:
    July 14th, 2008 at 9:54 pm

    Hi Steve

    There is lots of cheap LED PAR equipment around at the moment which is fine for small pubs/clubs. Depending on how much actual control you need on the day, you could get away without a DMX lighting controller – LED lights can often be set to a fixed colour or change colour based on a sound input from an internal microphone. Cheap and easy to use.

    If space is tight, you can cross light your singer and band (lighting positions at sides of stage area) using cheap lighting stands to get some height.

24. Geoff:
    July 31st, 2008 at 4:27 pm

    I run the lighting for a “village hall” amateur operatic group. We own/rent some oldish incandescent type stage lights (500W lamps mostly). I never have enough lamps for the coloured gels I would like to use. We also have limited power supplies (maxed out for most productions) Would 8 STAIRVILLE LED PAR64 PRO type lamps mix well with the old incandescents ? is there information somewhere about the actual light intensity from different types of flood/spot including the various LED types ? This is to give mostly colour washes to various areas of the stage. Is there a focusable LED colour mix spot at a reasonable price ?
    All assistance and advice gratefully received.

25. Rob:
    August 1st, 2008 at 11:55 am

    @ Geoff

    In a Village Hall, PAR64 LED fixtures have a bit of poke (not like a traditional PAR, though). The colours can be a bit rough on the cheaper units. Using them alonside halogens is fine, as long as you not trying actually match the colours up.

    As for flood, spots etc – Most units available are really more of a splodge , it’s best to try them out. The beams are not as uniform as stage lanterns. LED units are said to be architectural “eye candy” – not suitable for “real” theatre lighting yet.

    I don’t think that LED colour mix profile spots are worth looking at yet (for most applications).

    Don’t forget your extra control for the LEDs too.

    Thanks for question.

26. Alan Patience:
    October 4th, 2008 at 4:44 pm

    Hi – currently using NJD Spectres for lighting a 4 piece band. Can I buy a similar LED based system to replace this to provide stage wash? If so….what type?

    thanks & regrards

27. Matt:
    November 6th, 2008 at 6:23 pm

    Hi people,
    I am putting a lighting system together for a Solo Musician stage 2 x 3 meters.
    LEDs Par 64 seem the light of choice but why is there a choice between matt black and shinny silver for the enclosures?
    Any tips?
    Tar
    Matt.

28. Rob:
    November 7th, 2008 at 11:34 am

    @Matt

    The silver (aka “chrome”) PARs are good if you want make a feature out of your lighting rig, like the monster concert PAR rigs a la Whitesnake etc. Chrome cans also are hotter to touch. The black cans hide in the shadows just blasting out light undercover. Thanks for your question.

29. Peter:
    November 14th, 2008 at 9:37 am

    I’ve just been asked to light a small pantomime in our church hall. 2 nights only probably very limited budget.
    Unknown power availability.
    I’d appreciate any advice.

    Current thinking is two good follow spots which can open out to cover the whole stage area if required plus a couple of sets of LED lights to provide interest.

    What do you think?

    I need to hire everything. Do you have any recommendations for all-in kits?

    Many thanks

30. Rob:
    November 19th, 2008 at 9:07 am

    Hi Peter,

    Most lighting hire companies have good small lighting kits with a few dimmers, 500w fixtures and tripod stands. I would advise against relying on followspots to light your whole stage and, as mentioned in this article, LED fixtures are not the answer in many situations.

    Call you local hire company with some details and see what they recommend.

    Thanks for visiting.

31. Haydn:
    December 8th, 2008 at 11:00 am

    Hi, I work at my schools theatre which has your standard lamps and cases. I am trying to convince the school to convert to stage LEDs what advantages would they have to offer the school and external useers who use the centre for all means.
    Thanks very much

32. Doug:
    December 9th, 2008 at 1:07 am

    I am starting a new drama team and plan to get eight 300 watt par 56s, two stands, 2 dimmer boxes, a small follow spot and a dmx controller. with about a $1100 budget. I have seen some cheap packages of eight led par 64s for sale that will put me a little over budget but would it be worth it? I like the idea of having less power consumption and being able to change colors without using gels but will they be bright enough for my performers? Usually I will be trying to light up a 16ft by 12ft stage from stage left and stage right down front corners of the stage.

33. Kim:
    December 13th, 2008 at 9:58 pm

    Having seen some horribly cheap LED kit and what it does (or perhaps more accurately, what it doesn’t do) I’d stayed away until now. But I wanted something that would sit as unobtrusively as possible on the stage (nothing to hide behind) for a groundrow to light a gauze on Witches of Eastwick. Having Googled the options I’d have loved a set of Thomas Pixeline 1044s to play with but budget ruled that out so in the end I hired some cheap Miltec LED battens with heart slightly in mouth. Fortunately this wasn’t so much for even wash, more for effect and I was also able to rig a bunch of conventional Iris 2s across the top.

    Result? Apart from some unreliability due to what was finally diagnosed as dodgy DMX connections on internal circuits we really got some great effects from these LED battens and they certainly added something to the show. They even competed well on the bottom third of the cloth against the Iris battens. Some of the RGB mixes were surprisingly even although an attempt to get a true white, as stated elsewhere on comments here, were doomed to blotchy failure. This was compensated by getting a nice flame effect for the church faling apart by programming in a simple chase.

    I guess that’s a good illustration of where LEDs work best right now, if you are looking for something a bit more artificial and different and can protect the effect from high levels of conventional stage lighting LEDs are getting to be more interesting. The bonus for me was getting the very small form factor, the line of battens could barely be made out as being much different to the seam line of the gauze. I simply wouldn’t have got away with rigging a conventonal groundrow, even the more compact examples would have been too visually intrusive and, given tightness of space, impossible to place safely.

34. Rob:
    December 14th, 2008 at 8:36 pm

    @ Doug – None of the LED PARS I have seen are really up to the job of “performer” lighting for many of the reasons stated above. However LED kit has improved immensely in the last few years and continues to get better. We might just have to sit tight for bit longer.

    @ Kim – Thanks for letting us know about your experience Miltec LED battens. I have just realised that the colour temperature issue was not featured heavily enough in the original article. Even the 1044s blast out a dirty, patchy white – the effect gets worse as the LEDs themselves get older.

    I’ve got a show coming up in January with a load of Pixeline. The one part of the set that needs a good clean white is going to be lit in a less hi tech way – Good ole Howie Battens, CT blue and some directional frost.

    Many of the latest generation of LED fixtures have dedicated white LEDs, making them RGB + W. An improvment, definitely.

    Thanks for your comments.

35. Peter Garner:
    December 16th, 2008 at 7:48 am

    Hi Rob,
    I’ve recently started photographing live bands again and am coming up against some “interesting” white balance problems. The main problem is that my cameras (most digital cameras I believe) don’t yet have a setting for LED, and the other settings such as tungsten, fluorescent etc just don’t give a good result. Is there a standard colour temperature for these units? If not then I’ll have to set up a custom white balance but that’s not always convenient in the middle of a gig Any info greatly appreciated!

36. Rob:
    December 16th, 2008 at 10:49 am

    Hi Peter,

    The colour of white LEDs can be expressed as a colour temperature (in Kelvin) but the actual number depends on the LED type. That can give you a headache as a gig photographer, with a mix of “open white” tungsten front light mixed in with other sources including LEDs.

    I have just been talking to an LED expert who reminded me that Colour Rendering Index or CRI is another measure of colour temperature. It’s an indicator of the amount of the visible light spectrum output.

    So, no standard colour temperature for LEDs. Sorry.

37. Peter Garner:
    December 16th, 2008 at 12:51 pm

    Thanks Rob – I suspected it wouldn’t be a simple option. Looks like I’ll be shooting a lot of black and white/greyscale from now on …

38. Ville:
    December 30th, 2008 at 11:10 pm

    I’ve had some good experiences on Led pars while using together with conventional lighting. Eg. I had 16 pcs of led pars with 10mm by Eurolite, on a club-gig. They were on the back of the stage, focused upwards, flood-like beams creating a “wall of colour” into the haze, behind the band. It looked quite nice, plus the ability to do almost anything with these separately patched dmx-controlled fixtures. A solid colour, multiple colours, a colour chase or even a strobe effect.

    I usually grab some of these cheaper led fixtures along when doing a pop/rock gig on a small or a middle-sized venue. Good for adding some spice to the show and maybe washing surfaces etc. Due to the low power consumption and heat emission so you can basically drop them around on the stage.

39. Mark:
    January 18th, 2009 at 6:44 pm

    Hi there,

    I’ve been doing a bit of video work and have an area with white flat walls. I like the idea of colour-changing led lamps to provide variable colour – either for plain background colours or for chroma-key.

    However, video is pretty picky and tends to show up uneven illumination, so is the a LED lamp which could provide the variable colours and provide even illumination on a wall say 5m x 5m? I’m in quite a small space. I have some soft diffusor so possibly could put that on the lamp to ensure the lighting is very flat – but I do need a fair bit of light.

    Can you recommend a really good way of getting flat, even lighting over this area that wouldn’t cost a fortune? (I’m demanding but cheap!). Based in the UK.

    Thanks

    Mark

40. Mark:
    January 18th, 2009 at 6:45 pm

    …me again – should have said, I have some variable Dedolight aspherics lights for spotlighting / backlighting etc, so what I’m looking for is something to light the background behind a subject. Hope that makes sense – I’m not really a lighting person.

41. Jukes:
    March 6th, 2009 at 7:21 pm

    Hi

    We are a live circuit band looking to buy some led par cans. We liked the idea of a 3 by 3 grid of pars and have also picked up from you that you get exactly what you pay for.

    There seem to be a lot of very cheap budget cans on the market for £50 to £80 but we are not sure whether this would give us the quality we need.

    So…..what sort of price should we be looking at per led par can to get reasonable quality based on the idea of having two 3 by 3s, and also can you recommend any specific manufacturers please? If we had a budget of £100 per par can would this be sufficient?

    Many thanks.

42. Rob Sayer:
    March 6th, 2009 at 7:56 pm

    @ Jukes – From a Lighting Designers point of view, cheap LED PAR cans have their weaknesses but we still use them. A lot of reputable lighting hire companies buy them to perform their function cheaply and ditch them when they break.

    Not sure if a gigging band buying gear really needs high quality LED lighting, in all honesty. Cheap and cheerful all the way, if it was me.

    Thanks for your comment.

43. Rob Sayer:
    March 6th, 2009 at 8:01 pm

    @ Mark – Getting an even light is the same with any type of light source: No gaps, uniform throw distances etc. If you are planning on using video with LED, you might want to take a look at LED Lighting and Cameras.
    Cheers

44. Matt:
    March 8th, 2009 at 5:58 pm

    Hi people,
    I have Eurolite Par 64 LED’s and a stairwell Par 56 – don’t worry about the cheaper 56′s – go with the 64′s.

    I’m very happy with them: Connected to a DMX controller I can really vary the tone / mood of my solo singer/songwriter show.

    Load in and out is way simplified with a road bag that fits a full 2 x 4 rig on the crossbeam – Plug and play !

    Enjoy the music!

    Matt

45. Ella:
    April 29th, 2009 at 11:50 pm

    I am trying light 6 spandex shapes 16 x 16 for a graduation event. since the school has limited power and the LEDs not getting hot would be nice too. I want a bright wash of color it could shift to a different color but not like a dance club strob effect. what size of LED light should I look for I don’t have the budget for a DMX controller. (I have no budget and am buying this on my own) some units list foot candel 39 and some list Par-64 how do I compare with say 500 watts etc? As you can tell I need help! or should I just use par cans with gel? Thanks

46. Jeremy:
    May 4th, 2009 at 3:08 pm

    Hi,
    I heard a rumour that LED’s have a high failure rate in a theatre application, primarily due to heat sink issues.
    Can you comment on the reliability issue.
    thanks
    J

47. Rob Sayer:
    May 4th, 2009 at 6:10 pm

    Hi Jeremy – I think that it’s still too early to really tell where we stand on the reliability although I haven’t heard of any specific problems with heatsinks or cooling.

    Many of the LED units I have worked with have been in high use areas such including exhibition stands which have been running 24hrs a day. I also don’t know of any co’s specific issues with LED hire stock which would infer inherent problems with LED as a robust light source.

    I am aware of issues with build quality directly related to the purchase cost of the LED units in the first place. But that’s to be expected.

    Let us know if you hear of anything further.

    @ Ella – The kind of LED units best suited to your application depends on a number of factors, including position related to the surface. There are a number of decent “flood” like LED arrays that do a good colour wash (probably more use than PAR type LED) – although you don’t need a DMX controller, some of the units use a power supply that can also control some colour changes. Regarding power/brightness, most of the units in this kind of range output <500w of incandescent floodlight.

48. mark:
    June 3rd, 2009 at 10:05 am

    Your write up about the led fixure was good , but sometimes for me lacks clearity. I am setting out to explore this new world of lighting. I do like the low ampacity draw of this technology As for your comments about seleador, Bob’s fixtures use seven leds to achive remarkable results. Each primary spectrum has two chips, to acheive these results.
    With the use of trichromatic chips in a single source, this helps eliminate the deaded color reflections that you mentioned. This is due to the rgb’s focal source. Also the intoduction of the zoom pc lens over each 1 or 3 att tri chips has ceated a focusable source.

    Keep up the good work,

49. Lesley:
    June 25th, 2009 at 7:14 pm

    Hello,

    I am looking into replacing the lobby/seating area lighting in my laser tag facility. We currently (unconventionally) use 27 par56 wfl with colored gels on 9 tracks of 3 lights each. While we are happy with the overall effect, we would like eliminate some heat and save on utility bills. I was hoping we could retrofit our existing cans with LED bulbs. Is this possible? They are used daily for 7-12 hours. I would be interested in hearing your recommendations.

    Thanks!
    Lesley

50. Rob Sayer:
    June 25th, 2009 at 7:23 pm

    Hi Lesley. Usually, the most expensive bit of a PAR can is the lamp so time spent trying to retro fit with LED PAR56 lamps might not be worth it for minimal cost saving. A PAR can without a lamp is just a cheap lump of metal. Unless your PARs are specially adapted for the track (I assume that the track is not dimmed power) it’s probably just as easy to replace the can complete.

51. Alex Mead:
    June 27th, 2009 at 12:18 pm

    Hi Lesley,

    As a follow up, a good site to try for LED Pars is:

    http://www.stagelighting.co.uk/stage_lighting_store.htm

    They currently have an offer on where many Pars are 1/2 price…

    Hope this helps,

    Alex

52. mark:
    July 1st, 2009 at 2:33 am

    Just a note to Rob, good work on keping your readers straight about conventionals, Most people look for the easiet fix for their lighting problems or solutions. Like you said leds are eye candy for the most part, On the low end of the spectrum. However on the high end, Trichromatic chips are solving the distored colors, (by giving them a focal point) portrayed by the individual rgb chips.

    There is already a zoom rgb 1 watt or 3 watt trichromatic Par., It utilizing the k2 chip. the unit is available in 18, 24 and 30 Trichromatic k2 chips. The focus is acheived by the same number of small pc lenes. It uses a worm gear through the center of the pc lens plate. The design claims, 10-50 degrees.
    I have one on order I will let you know the results I find. Now where did I put my DHL account number?

53. Keith:
    August 6th, 2009 at 12:00 pm

    Hi, I’m new to stage lighting and looking for some advice. I manage a youth cafe and we have regular gigs for teenage bands. The venue is small and bands are usually 4-5 piece. I was advised to get a few LED par cans and am looking at getting 3 Lightmaxx LED par 56′s. I am just a bit worried that they might not be powerful enough. I tried 4 5w LED pars which were absolutely hopeless – I dont want to repeat the mistake. The ones I am looking at now have a power consumption of 20w each – is that a good enough indicator of power?

54. Rob Sayer:
    August 10th, 2009 at 11:34 am

    Hi Keith – I wouldn’t use power consumption as an indicator of LED PAR brightness as a lot depends on the LED design. As a lot of these cheap LED units don’t usually provide a lot of information when it comes to photometrics, I would simply try before you buy.

55. Trace:
    September 10th, 2009 at 4:03 pm

    Hi – I keep stumbling on this site and get the idea it’s a good source for honest lighting information and I really need some of that right now. I’m totally new to lighting and have been thrust into it because my wife and I are puppeteers and are currently building a small theater inside a 16 foot trailer. Any information about this venue is next to impossible to find because no one is doing this. It is a mobile outdoor theater traveling along the east coast. Because of the scale of puppet theater, the proximity of the lights, the ability of dimming is important. The inside of the theater is totally blacked out. The stage area opening is 8 feet wide by 4 feet deep and 3 and a half feet high. The playboard (stage floor) being only 12 inches in depth. There are two additional left and right stage wings behind front stage so a minimum of six LED floods would be necessary. Two LED fresnels for front of acting stage. Ceiling lights probably can not be used as they will be too close to the top of the puppet’s heads. Also will need back lighting for screen backcloths. From the wings the LED pars would only have to throw 4 feet to center stage. With such close distances I suppose I will have all kinds of troubles. At those distances I wonder if getting good white light is improved because white light is mainly what we need with these puppets and RGB for scenery. I want to use dedicated white LED’s for the puppets and RGB’s for scenery and effects. Dimming is also important to start, stop and move between acts. DMX software is planned as we will not have someone to run the lighting. Any recommendations and as to what size LED pars etc. to use would be helpful. Sorry for the long text.

56. Rob Sayer:
    September 13th, 2009 at 6:43 pm

    Hi Trace,

    As far as which fixtures to use, you really need to get some on demo to try them out. Information on LED kit, beam sizes, colours and brightness is pretty random and most LD’s will only specify kit they have tested rather than relying on the data. Find what fits your budget and try it before committing to buying anything.

    Two points strike me about colour. If you really need a good white for the puppets, have you considered using straight white LED fixtures rather than RGB colour mixing ones. There are a few white LEDS with a decent CRI (the amount of the colour spectrum they output).
    If you are planning on using RGB LEDs for the set, be careful with the set colours. LEDs have a habit of outputting a large amount of a very narrow wavelength, like a specfic blue for instance. This can really make certain reflected colours zing out if they happen to match this wavelength.

57. Mark:
    September 15th, 2009 at 1:14 am

    check out Seledor/ETC wash units, nice even washes and they can match the Rosco line up of color. Rob’s right about led wavelengths. In china the low cost ones just buy chinese Silan chips. the Q.C. is not the best so wavelenghts can vary from batch to batch. This will always be an issue between manufactures chips.

58. James P:
    October 5th, 2009 at 10:13 pm

    Thanks for the information regarding LED fixtures – not the sort of thing that appears in the sales literature! Most of the dealer sites I have looked at (e.g. Thomann) imply that LED’s are pretty much equivalent to their tungsten counterparts, but the light output figures are conspicuous by their absence!

    I’m faced with buying some portable lighting for a small theatre group, and am attracted to a pair of NJD Spectres for general illumination. Similar money would buy a couple of conventional lighting bars, but that complicates the dimming and control side, which needs to be simple as I also manage the sound reinforcement!

    Any thoughts or advice welcomed…

59. mark:
    October 6th, 2009 at 1:49 pm

    James , the best bang for the buck is the Selecon acclaim series fixtures. The fresnel and P.C. with doors is best way to use them. Add a gel changer with cue fades and you have a great combinaation. For control try the DMX soft, software it is very cost effective, and a good solution to control

60. Rob Sayer:
    October 6th, 2009 at 3:13 pm

    Hi James P. If you are looking for portable lighting for a theatre group, I wouldn’t consider units like the NJD or LED PARs as general lighting. Even though conventional fixtures require dimming kit as well as control, the light they produce is suitably controllable and good enough to “light” stuff (for visibility).

    Options like LEDs are great to colour and add effect, but very few would be suitable for general illumination. Especially not at the price point you would be looking at in your situation.

    Thanks for your question.

61. James P:
    October 6th, 2009 at 4:15 pm

    Thank you both for the prompt response! I have to admit that this is newish area for me, as I’m more familiar with sound than light, and although there is a huge amount of choice, objective information about much of it is lacking. As Rob suggests, the budget is the chief constraint, and while I get the impression that LED’s are beginning to cut it at the expensive end, it’s difficult to know the provenance of budget items.

    I hadn’t come across the Selecons, so will go looking now. I’d rather control manually, I think, as I’m only too familiar with computer crashes!

62. James P:
    October 7th, 2009 at 8:20 am

    As a matter of interest, Rob, why not the NJD’s (or possibly iColour equivalent)? Is it that mixed colour doesn’t give a true white, or the lack of focussing, or just general construction/reliability?

    We’ve got by in the past with assorted floodlights and no control beyond on/off switches, so almost anything would be an improvement!

63. Rob Sayer:
    October 7th, 2009 at 7:28 pm

    @James P.

    If you have so far got by using odd floods and on/off switches, I can see why you might not get where I’m coming from on this one. All these kinds of units are not lights (as anyone trying to light a performance would understand them) They are “coloured light blasting equipment”. Lighting any size of show succesfully requires the light sources to be reasonably controllable, have a good colour rendition and a decent quality of even light.

    That’s not to say they don’t have their place, I just wouldn’t be using them as a starting point. 500W fresnels are the staple light source of all kind of small scale shows for good reason.

    Mixing colours additively with this kind of gear invariably ends up with a dirty, uneven and unpleasant whitish light that just doesn’t compare to a tungsten fresnel. If you want white, use a white light source. Need colour, use gel. The best tool for your job is unlikely to be found in the DJ FX section of a music shop.

    Hope this has helped you to understand a bit more, without sounding ranty. Best wishes

64. James P:
    October 8th, 2009 at 10:23 am

    “The best tool for your job is unlikely to be found in the DJ FX section of a music shop”

    Fair comment! I do hear what you say, and I suspect that a few PAR lights with a mixture of flood and spot bulbs might be a better starting point. The budget might run to a couple of fresnels, although that won’t leave much (!) for control gear. I’d quite like to keep that local (ie. on the light stands) rather than have long runs of chunky (and electrically noisy when dimming) mains cables. Any thoughts or recommendations?

    Thanks for the input, BTW. Much appreciated.

65. Rob Sayer:
    October 14th, 2009 at 9:05 am

    Hi James,
    PARs are fine for a variety of uses, especially with well chosen lamps in them. The only thing to remember is that while PAR units can be relatively cheap, the lamps are not so.

    Localised dimmers are idea for stands, the usual being 3/4 channel. There are plenty to choose from in various price bands. I don’t have a lot of experience with the cheapest but for professionals we regularly use small dimmers from Pulsar and Zero88 in the UK.

66. James P:
    October 14th, 2009 at 9:41 am

    Thanks, Rob

    PAR56 bulbs seem to be around £10-12 online, which doesn’t sound too bad (although I realise you can also buy the cans for similar money!)

    Is there any point in spending more? Given the physics, I assume that they all have a similar life, but I appreciate that quality control might make a difference…

67. mark:
    October 14th, 2009 at 12:02 pm

    as we say in the states motor oil is motor oil, or blue is blue,just finish so we can go home.
    As for pars the brand name does make a difference, In the usa G.E. is the brand of choice, while philips and sylvania Osram are a distant second. I have found that usually their are one or two bad right out of the box.. Stay away from the chinese brands, wasted monies

68. Bud Barnes:
    November 9th, 2009 at 4:36 pm

    We are thinking og going to LED lighting in our church sanctuary. I’m concerned about the throw distance of LED’s. Where can I find the throw distance of a LED PAR 64 PRO and other LED lights?

69. James P:
    November 19th, 2009 at 9:58 am

    Funnily enough, our church is also considering LED lighting, largely prompted by H&S rules that now prevent churchwardens climbing ladders to change bulbs (!). We had a visit from a local lighting supplier and I thought the LED downlights were dismal. Very cold and not very bright – the old 300W halogens looked very good by comparison. I think LED’s can provide nice colour accenting of stonework, for instance, but for general lighting I was not impressed.

70. James P:
    November 20th, 2009 at 10:13 pm

    Displaying my ignorance here, I suspect, but if I have two DMX dimmers set to the same start address, will they operate in tandem when the same channels are controlled externally?

    Thanks

71. Rob Sayer:
    November 24th, 2009 at 8:55 am

    @ James P, yes, they will. Doubling up addresses is an occasionally useful technique if you need to control a large powered rig with not enough desk channels. Obviously, you have to be careful choosing which fixtures end up running in tandem so you retain a good level of intensity control.

72. James P:
    November 24th, 2009 at 10:11 am

    Thank you, Rob. I was hoping that would be the case! You’ll be pleased to know that we’ve settled on a simple rig with PAR56′s, a couple of fresnels and gels for colour, with no LED’s or colour mixers. I’m sure LED’s will make inroads eventually, but for decent light levels, halogens still seem far superior.

73. Steve K:
    February 2nd, 2010 at 2:24 pm

    Hi Rob, My band have been using a simple set up of four par64 cans with coloured gels for a few years now. We have a little four channel dimmer which we power them through and we leave the sliders static. This is very limited. We tried using the lights as ‘sound activated’ but could never get over the problem of the lights all going out each time we finished a song, leaving everyone in darkness!

    I’m in the process of sourcing four Par64 DMX LED cans, which I hope to use with a DMX controller. As we don’t have an extra pair of hands to manage the lights we will again be depending on a simple automatic chase sequence to react to the band’s music and add a bit more life to the lighting. We can then use the old par cans as floor standing lights. Are there any particular DMX controllers that will do the job and do you know if they will allow me to set lights to ‘on’ when the music stops? I realise that we can still leave the old Par64s on in between songs but if there are any occasions when we are short of space, we’ll be leaving these behind.

    Thanks
    Steve

74. nark:
    February 4th, 2010 at 3:07 pm

    Steve, you can use a software controller, EASY SOFT is affordable and a snap to use. You could also use sunlite, it has a 10 pin port on the box, it is a trigger for allowing you to access 8 scenes that you create on the computer. You down load the scenes into the hardware box(dongle). You can make a simple foot switch box with. eight on-off switches to recall the scenes. Just a thought
    Mark

75. Rob Sayer:
    February 13th, 2010 at 11:12 am

    Hey Steve,

    Some of the cheap LED PAR64 cans I have used only change colour when activated by their internal mic and don’t black out. Obviously you don’t get too much choice about what the do when they are chasing but some may have a Master/Slave configuration that ensures a uniformity of colours. As you have previously been using dimmers and conventional PARs, the dimmer obviously shuts off with no sound at all – not all sound to light setups are like this, though.

    I would have thought that the level of DMX controller you would be looking for would at least have some way that you could control your blackout. Another idea would be to use your floor cans, left on as you suggest in the larger venues and leave some of your LED kit “set”, no sound to light, on occasions where you don’t have the full rig.

76. Steve K:
    February 19th, 2010 at 10:54 am

    Having looked into things a bit more, it seems the way we should be going is to use a MIDI foot controller to trigger certain commands in a DMX controller. There are, however, so many of these around and the MIDI implementation details are sketchy.

    It seems the main question I should be asking here is this:

    I want to trigger chases on a DMX controller via a MIDI pedal and have them controlled by the ‘sound/music’ facility. If I set the DMX controller to ‘sound/music’ mode then select chases via MIDI will the ‘sound/music mode’ remain active or do I need to re-select this each time I change chases?

    Does anybody have experience of this?

77. Steve K:
    February 19th, 2010 at 11:02 am

    Just as an addition to the above, I’m not talking about any particular make/model of DMX controller here yet, I’m hoping for recommendations.

    Cheers
    Steve

78. Lizzie:
    February 23rd, 2010 at 10:32 am

    Hi

    I am a third year student and have to put on a production which we will be touring to local schools. The topic is on global warming and I am in charge of all the tech! Coming accross LED PAR lighting, I see that it is energy efficient, uses less heat, are brightly coloured etc and so are perfect for this project. I have usesd fresnels and profiles in the past and want to know if these LED lights are easy to use also. I have not set-up a DMX lighting board before and feel as though it could be difficult.
    The directors are very keen to show that we ourselves are using energy effiecient technology and so I am keen in using this type of lighting. Should I carry on down this route or just stick to what I know?

    Thanks.

79. Lizzie:
    February 23rd, 2010 at 10:57 am

    Also, can you get a ‘natural’ light effect for the outdoors or a soft lighting colour for indoors, or are the colours just bright and harsh?

    Thanks again!

80. Rob Sayer:
    March 1st, 2010 at 1:41 pm

    Hi Lizzie

    Commonly used LED lighting fixtures are great for creating garish colours and generally splatting light around the place, but no one could accuse them of being natural. I wouldn’t let the thought of setting them up put you off, just understand that they can bring you efficiency and low heat with vivid colours but won’t do a beautiful, soft and natural light like a tungsten fresnel. HTH

81. Kim Hollamby:
    March 1st, 2010 at 2:45 pm

    Recently trialled a Showtec 3W PAR and then just got involved with rigging six of them in a show yesterday on a reasonable sized stage, flown at around 16ft. Of all the ‘cheaper’ fixtures (bearing in mind these Showtec 3W units are not exactly bargain basement) I have to say they are reasonably impressive. They look quite punchy on a black stage although you can rapidly wash them into oblivion with conventional fixtures; matching colours to gels could prove interesting too. But they show how the technology seems to be creeping forward a bit; beam angle is around 35-40 degrees and with the built-in diffusers the light level across the beam seemed reasonably consistent. The fade was remarkably flicker-free too, a bit juddery on the tail end of the reds but transition across colours was surprisingly good a lot of the time.

    It didn’t come off but I had plans to rig 18 of them in three rows of six on up/downstage trusses to throw in some colour on a stage with only 18 ways of conventional dimming available; I think having seen them yesterday it would have worked quite well.

82. Rob Sayer:
    March 1st, 2010 at 3:01 pm

    Hi Kim, I used some of the slightly better quality Showtec PARs recently and I agree they are improving in colour rendition and light quality. The 7 colour Seladors have some great colour capabilities and some of the recently emerging battery / wireless DMX units have a real market in the quick turn around world of events.

83. Charlie Simpson:
    April 7th, 2010 at 2:47 am

    I am looking for information on a high power LED white Par Can. Not RGB. Approx 5000K white and would like a lumen output over 14K. I have not seen anything out there. I want a Par Can that is as bright as a 1000W halogen Par64. Any info would help. Thanks

84. Callum Noble:
    April 8th, 2010 at 8:03 am

    Im not aware of any specific fixture that meets your needs, you might want to look at LED Pars which feature the RGBW configuration as these give a far better white than RGB only fixtures. Not sure if these are available without the colour mixing as this seems to be a major selling point with LED lighting fixtures.

    Hope this helps.

    Cal

85. Zoe J:
    April 11th, 2010 at 1:26 am

    Hi there,

    I am a singer in a 5 piece band, and we recently moved to a set of LED spotlights on a high stand. I play keyboards too, and last night after having the lights on me for a good hour, I felt really sick, and all my vision down one side went black. all I could see were tiny white points, and my memory seems to go! It is the 2nd ttime we’ve used these lights, and I am worried about them. Has anyone else had this problem, and without knowing what make and model they are until tomorrow, I wonder if there are any warnings on this subject?

    Thank you for you attnetion in this matter.

    Zoe

86. Callum Noble:
    April 11th, 2010 at 6:46 pm

    As part of my studies this year (Im a 3rd Year Neuroscience student) we touched on the fact that certain LED light fixtures can trigger photosensitive epilepsy in rare circumstances. My advice would be to consult a doctor or other health professional before you use them again.

87. James P:
    April 12th, 2010 at 12:14 pm

    Interesting (and slightly alarming) comment from Zoe. I assume colour mixing and fading is achieved by pulse-width modulation (switching on and off very quickly) and there may be some odd subliminal strobing effects between the colours. The quick fix should be to leave them full on, although I realise that limits the impact on the audience!

    This looks like something that needs investigation…

88. Chuck Haskins:
    April 19th, 2010 at 9:20 pm

    Hi Rob,
    I just found your site and wish I found it 3 years ago. We are running a worship service in our gym and have two stands on either side of the band with 4 par 38 w/dimmer pack on either side for 8 lights total. I have a par 56 led for lighting effect each side.
    I need white lighting on the front for the pastor/speaker. I can mount a light weight light on the pipe/drape that surrounds the audience. The distance would be approximately 30 feet. Do you think 2 par 64 led cans can provide white wash at this distance? (1 each side so they are off to the front/side of the person speaking) I would rather not have to deal with hot traditional par lighting as power is also an issue. What brand would you recommend for 2 lights under $500.00 US total?

89. mark:
    April 20th, 2010 at 3:25 pm

    Brother where art thou??
    If you use 10mm chips , it is not going to be satisfactory. you will need to use 1 -3 watt per. Look at the trichromatic chips, smd type of course. I like the zoom pars
    3x 24 , or 3x 30 some are even 3 x 32. with a zoom of 6 -60 degree
    Elation sells a 3 x 24pc zoom.
    It’s zoom is actually good for 15 -50 degrees however., as for price you get what you pay for.
    Blessings brother…

90. Chuck Haskins:
    April 21st, 2010 at 2:52 am

    Great feedback, thank you. Is there an all white LED to produce a bright white? I do not have to have color for this specific application but would use it if I had it…; )

91. Mark:
    April 21st, 2010 at 11:45 pm

    There is a 3 x 30 zoom fixture that would do nicely 10pc are amber chips and the remaining 20 are white. the zoom is 10-60 degrees same as the rgb. Let me know if you would like some

92. Martha:
    June 11th, 2010 at 12:58 am

    WE have a 1921 theatre with a full stage that we are renovating. I want to be a green friendly and cost effective as possible. Can LED instruments be used successfully on the stage? Can a theatre have both conventional and LED fixtures?
    My proscenium opening is approx 40 feet wide by 40 feet high. It has a complete grid system that we will also renovate with a new fly rail. How high can I trim my electrics, if they have LED on them?

93. Trace:
    June 13th, 2010 at 9:39 pm

    Hi Rob,
    I’m a complete “Newbee” to theater lighting but I’m extremely interested in learning for my unusual theater application.

    My wife and I are starting up a puppet theater and has been in the making for five years.

    The theater is actually located in a 14 foot trailer which we pull around and will do booked shows outdoors in it. I am in the last phase of the theater project which is the lighting. I purchased Chauvet “ShowExpress” lighting controller software, Chauvet DMX-4 dimmer/relay for controlling a few 120 volt devices like a fogger and curtains. Purchased one LED Rain 36 White spot and one LED Splash Jr PAR 38 for experimentation.

    Since we are operating on a battery bank and then inverting to A/C, LED lighting is perfect for much lower energy requirements and in such a small space the practically no heat is a necessity.

    That said, the problem is the stage size and how to light it in such a small space. (Maybe that’s good for LED lighting)

    The stage opening measures 8 feet wide and 3 feet high. That is the major problem the height. The puppet acting stage floor area is 12 inches deep.

    The overall stage depth is 5 feet where we will use backdrops and scrims.

    I guess one of my big problems is understanding what kind of a beam I will get on a puppet which stands 14 to 16 inches tall in a stage height of only 3 feet?

    I was thinking maybe a a LED stage bar hung up in the ceiling about 4 feet away and at some angle that would flood the fronts of the puppets well.

    I’m at a loss in what to do. All the stage lighting I’ve read about pertains to regular size stages and no information seems to be around for these small stages.

    Maybe it’s a no brain-er. Everything is so close that LED’s will be plenty bright enough to do the job. Maybe the biggest problem is hanging them so they aren’t in the way of the viewers.

    Anyway, any information/encouragement that you could offer would be appreciated. I realize I’m asking a lot and really where would you start with this situation anyway?

    Really enjoy the site and I have learned a lot of basics from here in the answers you provide.

    Thanks, Trace
    Fox’s Puppet Troupe Theater

94. Jamie Robertson:
    June 23rd, 2010 at 2:30 pm

    Hey – im looking into buying some LED lights for our theatre group – and after quite a bit of looking – iv come to the decision between LEDJ Stage wash 18 or LEDJ Stage wash 36 – Any you guys have any experience with these lights and could offer any information or advice

    I was hoping that they’d be able to fill my stage = 33ft x 25ft
    I was looking at buying around 8 of them. L)

95. DuncanM:
    September 2nd, 2010 at 1:02 am

    Hi y’all – I recently bought two “tri-led” LED PAR64s – they have RGB in each individual LED, at 1W per colour per LED, x18 LEDs =54W total. Colour mixing was excellent, with a mixed colour being evident at the end of the can, about 6 inches from the LEDs. And it’s not so ugly to look down the barrel, as the lenses in front of the LED seem to have some gentle frosting so the LEDs look the mixed colour. Still 18 coloured dots, of course, but at least they’re all the same colour!

    I used them for a small concert gig, washing straight across the stage either side of the drum kit, sitting on the stage (these ones have a split yoke, which I love!). Out front were 8x PAR56′s and 2x 500W fresnels for singer lighting. The good news is they did a great job, and they are way brighter than PAR56′s with saturated gels in. I didn’t do a side-by-side, but I reckon they’re getting on for as bright as a PAR64 with a deep gel. And I could get meaningful variations of colour, from a magenta through a true purple to a warm pink, for example – more than seven colours, anyway!

    AND the white was OK – not great, and I’d never use it for theatrical lighting as a front light. But… I might consider using it as a top light, if it’s already in the rig. And I’m definitely going to use them in theatre, to get those saturated washes which are so hard with lower-powered fixtures.

    cheers
    Duncan

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