LED Stage Lighting – Why Buy RGB LED Stage Lights?
22 September - LED Stage Lighting, Stage Lighting Equipment - by: Rob Sayer
LED lighting for stage and theatrical use has never been so cheap to buy. It seem like every major stage lighting manufacturer has dived into the LED lighting fixture market while cheap imported lights mean that even a small band or DJ can get a slice of the RGB colour mixing action. On Stage Lighting has a guide for anyone thinking of buying and hoping to learn more about LED stage lighting fixtures.
Why Buy LED Stage Lights?
High Powered LED (Light Emitting Diode) technology means that we can now use those funny little glowing things that used to live on the front of your television, in theatre shows, live music gigs and corporate shows. LED fixtures have many advantages over “old fashioned” lanterns that make them attractive in stage lighting.
- Low Power Consumption – Because the LED uses a fraction of the power of an normal lightbulb (lamp), the power consumption of LED lighting fixtures is very small, meaning you can use a lot of fixtures on small power supply such as a 13A domestic socket. This is great for small band lighting rigs and the disco/party DJ.
- Low Heat Radiation – Although LED stage lighting does produce heat, the fixtures produce light without getting extremely hot. Modern stage lighting lamps produce more heat (and light) than they ever have and this has been coupled with improved lantern casings to minimise the risk of burning the operator. There are, however, some environments where the low heat properties of LED stage lighting are desirable.
- Lightweight and Portable – The hardware that LED fixtures are packaged in does not need to be heavy and, although the various power supplies and elements all add weight, LED units are usually fairly light.
- Colour Effects – The most common way for LED lights to be used for stage lighting purposes is using a combination of different coloured LEDs. A fixture with all three three lighting primary colours, Red, Green and Blue (RGB) LEDs blended together in different combinations gives the lighting designer loads of colour choices. This is using a principle called Additive Colour Mixing, where the coloured LEDs mix on any surface that reflects the light.
- Small and Compact – LED lighting fixtures can be made in small, discreet packages which suit applications where size and brightness are important such as exhibitions stands.
- High Brightness – This really comes down to the ratio of light brightness to power consumption. The new high powered LEDs are very bright considering small amount of electrical power they use.
So, What Types of LED Lighting Fixture Might I Choose?
For the purposes of stage lighting, the RGB colour mixing (see above) capabilities of the LED fixtue is it’s selling point. The main forms are in a lighting batten, a long strip with an array of red, green and blue LEDs or in a compact array that produces a beam of light, similar to a conventional PAR can or a Floodlight. The batten are useful for lighting up flat areas, such as a wall or backcloth, while the PAR / Flood fixtures will give you a beam of light, similar to their conventional stage lighting relatives.
Moving Light technology has also joined the LED bandwagon, with LED arrays being packaged in all shapes and sizes of “waggly” DMX lighting fixtures. Another stage and theatrical use for the LED is in a large, screen-like array which can be used to show colours, patterns and moving images like a low resolution television screen.
How Do I Control My LED Stage Lighting?
Stage lighting is usually controlled using the standard DMX512 protocol, and LED fixtures are no exception. Different DMX channels control the Red, Green, Blue while other channels may deal with overall instensity or special chases and effects. The LED lights are linked to the DMX signal chain in the same way as other intelligent stage lighting fixtures and do not require extra dimmers to control them.
If you don’t have a DMX lighting controller, many LED stage lighting units can be used in “standalone” mode or can have control locally, using a simple controller/power supply that enable you to change the colour and run simple effects.
What’s the catch about LED stage lights , then?
LED stage lighting is cheaper than ever, uses less power, is smaller and doesn’t get hot. It also offers you a range of light colours, without using lighting gels. What more do you want?
Well, there is a few things you might want to know about LED stage lighting, before you go out and buy a van full.
- LED arrays can’t “focus up” like a conventional lantern. Because there are many sources of light in the fixture, you can’t get a sharp spotlight or project a gobo using an LED fixture.
- The “endless” colour choices have limits. Different LED stage lights have various colours that they just “don’t do”. A good quality white light is one of them. Because of the way that all three colours (RGB) are mixed, a good even white light is near impossible to achieve with most fixtures.
- LED lighting fixtures are bright – but not that bright. Although power for instensity-wise LED stage lighting fixtures are really efficient, they do lack the punch of their conventional lantern relatives (for the moment). A PAR can with LEDs in it is nowhere near as punchy as a PAR64 CP62 (or even a PAR56, for that matter).
- Intensity drops off quicker over distance. Or at least , it appears to. Because most LED lighting units have neither a lens nor a reflector, the light they produce scatters and struggles to maintain intensity when thrown much of a distance.
- Colour mixes better over distance(?). Because the three coloured LEDs need to mix on a surface to create an even light, this mix improves further away from the light source. This produces the dichotomy of a fixture that colours mixes well when it is too far way to mantain a good intensity.
- You get what you pay for. All LED stage lighting fixtures are not the same. Even though you can buy them cheap doesn’t mean that you should and all of the above points are more apparent in cheap LED lighting fixtures. A good quality lighting manufacturer will always be more expensive but, in general, the quality of the light and fixture will be far superior.
While having their faults and limitations, DMX controlled LED lighting fixtures are an important development in the techonology of stage and theatre lighting. They expand the armoury of the lighting designer and will help save the planet – a bit. If you have any thoughts on LED stage lighting or have a question to put to On Stage Lighting, please use our comments box below.
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On Stage Lighting has a ton of stuff like this. You may also like:
- What Stage Lighting Should I Buy? Intelligent Or Conventional Lights?
- Lighting Design with Moving Lights – A Small Show
- Media Servers and Digital Stage Lighting
- LED Light Control – DMX Controllers for LED Stage Lighting
- Stage Lighting Maintenance – Your Rig, Only Better
Rob is a freelance LD and Programmer working the the UK events industry. He is also the Editor of On Stage Lighting
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November 2nd, 2007 at 8:10 am
Hi
I am Scottish and run a trading company in Guangzhou China. Today I visited a factory who manufacture LED lighting for bars and clubs etc. I was really looking for some advice as after reading you web site I think you are an expert in these products. Basically do you think they are any good as I am considering marketing their product.
Thanks in advance
Robert McCairns
November 3rd, 2007 at 2:58 pm
Hi Robert
LED stage lighting products are a growth industry and though we can’t comment on the quality your manufacturers LED products, the availability of cheaper LED stage lights from the Far East is to be welcomed.
In the UK professional lighting industry we currently use LED products of trusted brands that gtry to keep us happy, both with light quality and build quality. The availability of spare parts and after sales service is also important.
The bar and club market have slightly different needs particularly price, ease of use and the ability to make the LED kit work without investing time and money in complex control systems or expensive technicians.
There is room in the fledgling market of LED stage lighting for a range of products for different uses and budgets. As with everything, understanding your market is the key…
Good luck for the future.
February 5th, 2008 at 7:45 am
Hi
I am thinking of buying a set of Showtec LED Powerbricks and four source four spots using a Zero 88 Dimmer. Could you please suggest what control desk I could use. I have a limited budget this this.
Many Thanks
Martin
February 5th, 2008 at 2:53 pm
Hi Martin,
Although I have not used the Showtec LED Powerbricks, they are similar to some other small LED lighting battens, such as the ChromaQ ColorBlock. The are controlled via a power supply that can accept a DMX control signal.
LED lighting fixtures are fairly simple, so it is still quite easy to control them from a simple DMX desk, even without specific intelligent lighting features. As most LED products are controlled by few DMX channels (I think the Powerbricks use a maximum of 3 to 5 channels) you could even use a 12 way manual DMX lighting desk.
Another budget solution is to look into a cheap USB to DMX dongles and PC stage lighting controllers.
February 9th, 2008 at 7:33 am
Hi Rob
Thanks for this I will look into this PC software.
Martin
March 26th, 2008 at 11:24 am
I am looking for LED lights that I can use with a portable battery that can be used to shoot videos when lighting conditions are not ideal. Some shoots are outdoors, where the light is more of a fill, though sometimes it will be indoors where the light will be a key. What would you recommend for a portable rig? I don’t mind carrying a battery as large as a car battery if I have to, and the video shoots rarely last over 3 or 4 hours, with the lights being turned on and off. Am I dreaming or is this something feasible?
March 28th, 2008 at 10:01 am
Shaka,
I suspect that this kind of portable video light will become more available. I am not sure if you can get larger key light sized units at the moment.
You probably know that small handheld LED battery powered lights video lights with diffusion and barndoors are available for ENG work etc. I know that Sony make some.
If you find a source of larger LED video shoot lighting, post back here and let us know.
May 8th, 2008 at 7:07 pm
I am looking for an LED equivalent of a 50/75W halogen stem spot for lighting paintings for art shows. Are there such lights available? How do they compare in price and effectiveness?
May 14th, 2008 at 8:35 am
@ De Anarky
You should search for MR16 replacement LED. These are a direct swap for the “stalk lights” halogen light bulbs you refer to. Sorry for late reply.
May 16th, 2008 at 9:44 am
Hi,
I’m putting a little project together for a musician friend – he’s about to launch a ‘low carbon footprint album’ (I know) and has asked for a bike onstage to power one stage spotlight of some form. The idea is to con someone in the audience to pedal like mad for a while.
Anyway – I reckon I can get about 30v out of the bike (I’m not sure of the power or current specs yet).
Has anyone got any ideas on what kind of light I could use??
May 16th, 2008 at 11:24 am
Hi Oz,
Sounds like a great concept. Some cheap LED units would give you a load of bang for your bike (sorry).
The main thing to look out for is Voltage Regulation and Current Delivery of the bike generator. 12V LED fixtures, for instance, don’t like having 5 volts to 30 volts jumping about all over the place.
Having sorted out a regular voltage and a decent amount of current from your generator, you can pretty much use any low voltage LED kit that fits the bill.
June 3rd, 2008 at 7:48 pm
I am designing a youth theater for my churches youth ministry. I want to get a truss with some lights on it and even have maybe some LED washes or tubes on stage. Any ideas on what lights to have on the truss? Also if it would be a good idea to get LC Panels from Martin?
June 4th, 2008 at 9:32 am
Hi Cory
If you are starting with nothing, LED fixtures/ LC panels are not first on your shopping list. They are expensive “luxuries” that need complex control systems – the sort of equipment that you add when you already have the basics.
Spotlights – Fresnels, PC or Ellipsoidals are standard lights for lighting a stage. The size/power you need depends on the distance to the stage. Or you can use a number of PAR64’s.
LED fixtures are good for washing colour on sets, walls and architecture. You can also use them as truss warmers or to make drum kits look good. LED lighting is not so good for lighting a stage or people for the reason in this article.
Thanks for your comment.
June 4th, 2008 at 2:51 pm
i have a PROLIGHT DMX BABY JC1 – PROFESSIONAL 64 CHANNEL LIGHTING CONTROLLER and 2 KAM LED 800’s – i am trying to get the led’s programmed and the manual is hard work – i really need some help setting these up – i just want them to work together on either side of a stage or dj rig – HELP!!!! xx
June 5th, 2008 at 3:23 pm
Hi Claire
If you email the user manuals of both the LED’s and the Controller, I will have a look and try to “translate” the important bits. Email is on the About page.
The trouble cheap kit, LED or anything else, are the awful user manuals. Cheap equipment is usually bought by people who need the most help and a lot of the equipment in this market is less than intuitive.
Perhaps there is a market for “translated” stage lighting equipment user manuals….
June 15th, 2008 at 6:53 pm
Would you recommend LED for Cyclorama/Backdrop lighting? If so any recommendations for fixtures?
June 16th, 2008 at 7:47 pm
Kaiel
LED battens are designed light wide ares like cycs. I quite like the common Thomas Pixeline 1044 but it depends on your budget. Cheaper battens have problems with producing even colour washes.
LED colours are have a certain “look” to them that might seem out of place with some traditional theatre lighting.
I have also seen a number of floodlight style LED fixtures but wouldn’t say that they replaces a single cell cyc flood.
Thanks for your question.
June 18th, 2008 at 4:50 pm
Hi, I am currently setting up my own band to tour with. We are looking to start with bar-type venues but would need lighting that would look professional because we are hoping to progress to play bigger venues. Unfortunately, lighting is not my expertise. I have heard about the LED lighting and have been told that it is the new up-and-coming thing. I want a professional look but do not know where to start. Which are the best makes of LED lighting to buy? How much does a good professional quality LED can cost? How many would you suggest I need to light up a band of about 5+ members. I would be extremely grateful for your comments. Many thanks, Nichola
June 21st, 2008 at 8:13 pm
Nichola
LED lighting seems new and exciting and has many benefits, listed above. Starting a small Band Lighting Rig , you would be better off with some cheap PAR56 cans (similar to the 1000W PAR 64, but use less power)some lighting stands and coloured gels.
These are cheap, easy to use and maintain plus you don’t need a great deal of complex control equipment. A small bar band lighting rig can be as small as 2 stands, 8 PAR 56s and some cables. Many suppliers package up several “small band lighting kits” that have everything you need.
Having said that, you can buy dirt cheap LED domestic light fittings and benefit from their low power/heat properties. Being creative with what ever you do buy will make your lighting more professional.
Thanks for your question.
June 23rd, 2008 at 12:04 pm
Hi Rob
A company I work with takes plays and monologues into nightclubs. Having just spent a hectic couple of sessions getting to grips with my first Avo (Azure Shadow) and somewhat unpredictable Martin Macs I’ve been told that much of the system is going to be changed to LED fixtures. The club don’t employ any kind of technician, and haven’t got the concept of keeping hold of manuals (despite me asking several times)- is there a beginners guide to working with LED fixtures or would that be specific to the fixtures/ control system? I’d like to know where to start looking if I start getting stuck.
I should say I’m a recent lighting design graduate and have had more practise programming generics.
June 23rd, 2008 at 9:41 pm
Hi Marie
LED fixtures are generally simpler to use than full moving lights, like the MACs. There is less to control and think
about when programming. Assuming that the newly installed fixtures will be patched to the clubs Azure, you only really
need to know:
- Where the LED fixtures are patched on the Azure. Which buttons select them.
- what you can do with them ie. Red Green Blue, Strobe, Dimmer etc. You can find this out by selecting the LED fixtures
and then pressing the attribute buttons (beam, colour, effect etc) and reading what appears at the bottom of the screen
reffering to the encoders (wheels). (BTW if, for some reason, the Azure you are using doesn’t have a screen, get one. You can’t really use the desk without it).
- If the fixture personality the desk is using is HTP or LTP. Why you need to know is briefly explained in Led Lighting Control
If you are going to be the one doing the patching , you need to find out a bit more such as:
- The make/model and running mode (often fixtures have different mode setting which affect their control channel mapping)
of the LED fixtures to get the correct Azure fixture
personality from the Avo website.
- The DMX start channels of the fixtures so you can assign them on the desk.
Then off you go, press clear – select LED fixtures – choose “colour” – wind up desired look – hit “record” followed by
the plackback button you want to assign the look too. If you have managed to get your Macs programmed, you will have no
problems with the LED kit. BTW the Azure is pretty awful for easy controlling a decent number of generics.
If you have any specific questions on Avo desks – even the Azure (which I am not a big fan of due to it’s ability to make
experienced Pearl users (ie – me) look like a fumbling idiot) – come back and we can help you out.
Thanks for visiting.
July 7th, 2008 at 9:45 pm
I am considering getting a PAR 64 LED setup for my band. We do small pubs/clubs. Space is usually quite tight and budget is tight also! Priority is to light up singer but to get a bit of scatter for rest of us…?
What do you suggest?
July 14th, 2008 at 9:54 pm
Hi Steve
There is lots of cheap LED PAR equipment around at the moment which is fine for small pubs/clubs. Depending on how much actual control you need on the day, you could get away without a DMX lighting controller – LED lights can often be set to a fixed colour or change colour based on a sound input from an internal microphone. Cheap and easy to use.
If space is tight, you can cross light your singer and band (lighting positions at sides of stage area) using cheap lighting stands to get some height.
July 31st, 2008 at 4:27 pm
I run the lighting for a “village hall” amateur operatic group. We own/rent some oldish incandescent type stage lights (500W lamps mostly). I never have enough lamps for the coloured gels I would like to use. We also have limited power supplies (maxed out for most productions) Would 8 STAIRVILLE LED PAR64 PRO type lamps mix well with the old incandescents ? is there information somewhere about the actual light intensity from different types of flood/spot including the various LED types ? This is to give mostly colour washes to various areas of the stage. Is there a focusable LED colour mix spot at a reasonable price ?
All assistance and advice gratefully received.
August 1st, 2008 at 11:55 am
@ Geoff
In a Village Hall, PAR64 LED fixtures have a bit of poke (not like a traditional PAR, though). The colours can be a bit rough on the cheaper units. Using them alonside halogens is fine, as long as you not trying actually match the colours up.
As for flood, spots etc – Most units available are really more of a splodge , it’s best to try them out. The beams are not as uniform as stage lanterns. LED units are said to be architectural “eye candy” – not suitable for “real” theatre lighting yet.
I don’t think that LED colour mix profile spots are worth looking at yet (for most applications).
Don’t forget your extra control for the LEDs too.
Thanks for question.
October 4th, 2008 at 4:44 pm
Hi – currently using NJD Spectres for lighting a 4 piece band. Can I buy a similar LED based system to replace this to provide stage wash? If so….what type?
thanks & regrards
November 6th, 2008 at 6:23 pm
Hi people,
I am putting a lighting system together for a Solo Musician stage 2 x 3 meters.
LEDs Par 64 seem the light of choice but why is there a choice between matt black and shinny silver for the enclosures?
Any tips?
Tar
Matt.
November 7th, 2008 at 11:34 am
@Matt
The silver (aka “chrome”) PARs are good if you want make a feature out of your lighting rig, like the monster concert PAR rigs a la Whitesnake etc. Chrome cans also are hotter to touch. The black cans hide in the shadows just blasting out light undercover. Thanks for your question.
November 14th, 2008 at 9:37 am
I’ve just been asked to light a small pantomime in our church hall. 2 nights only probably very limited budget.
Unknown power availability.
I’d appreciate any advice.
Current thinking is two good follow spots which can open out to cover the whole stage area if required plus a couple of sets of LED lights to provide interest.
What do you think?
I need to hire everything. Do you have any recommendations for all-in kits?
Many thanks
November 19th, 2008 at 9:07 am
Hi Peter,
Most lighting hire companies have good small lighting kits with a few dimmers, 500w fixtures and tripod stands. I would advise against relying on followspots to light your whole stage and, as mentioned in this article, LED fixtures are not the answer in many situations.
Call you local hire company with some details and see what they recommend.
Thanks for visiting.
December 8th, 2008 at 11:00 am
Hi, I work at my schools theatre which has your standard lamps and cases. I am trying to convince the school to convert to stage LEDs what advantages would they have to offer the school and external useers who use the centre for all means.
Thanks very much
December 9th, 2008 at 1:07 am
I am starting a new drama team and plan to get eight 300 watt par 56s, two stands, 2 dimmer boxes, a small follow spot and a dmx controller. with about a $1100 budget. I have seen some cheap packages of eight led par 64s for sale that will put me a little over budget but would it be worth it? I like the idea of having less power consumption and being able to change colors without using gels but will they be bright enough for my performers? Usually I will be trying to light up a 16ft by 12ft stage from stage left and stage right down front corners of the stage.
December 13th, 2008 at 9:58 pm
Having seen some horribly cheap LED kit and what it does (or perhaps more accurately, what it doesn’t do) I’d stayed away until now. But I wanted something that would sit as unobtrusively as possible on the stage (nothing to hide behind) for a groundrow to light a gauze on Witches of Eastwick. Having Googled the options I’d have loved a set of Thomas Pixeline 1044s to play with but budget ruled that out so in the end I hired some cheap Miltec LED battens with heart slightly in mouth. Fortunately this wasn’t so much for even wash, more for effect and I was also able to rig a bunch of conventional Iris 2s across the top.
Result? Apart from some unreliability due to what was finally diagnosed as dodgy DMX connections on internal circuits we really got some great effects from these LED battens and they certainly added something to the show. They even competed well on the bottom third of the cloth against the Iris battens. Some of the RGB mixes were surprisingly even although an attempt to get a true white, as stated elsewhere on comments here, were doomed to blotchy failure. This was compensated by getting a nice flame effect for the church faling apart by programming in a simple chase.
I guess that’s a good illustration of where LEDs work best right now, if you are looking for something a bit more artificial and different and can protect the effect from high levels of conventional stage lighting LEDs are getting to be more interesting. The bonus for me was getting the very small form factor, the line of battens could barely be made out as being much different to the seam line of the gauze. I simply wouldn’t have got away with rigging a conventonal groundrow, even the more compact examples would have been too visually intrusive and, given tightness of space, impossible to place safely.
December 14th, 2008 at 8:36 pm
@ Doug – None of the LED PARS I have seen are really up to the job of “performer” lighting for many of the reasons stated above. However LED kit has improved immensely in the last few years and continues to get better. We might just have to sit tight for bit longer.
@ Kim – Thanks for letting us know about your experience Miltec LED battens. I have just realised that the colour temperature issue was not featured heavily enough in the original article. Even the 1044s blast out a dirty, patchy white – the effect gets worse as the LEDs themselves get older.
I’ve got a show coming up in January with a load of Pixeline. The one part of the set that needs a good clean white is going to be lit in a less hi tech way – Good ole Howie Battens, CT blue and some directional frost.
Many of the latest generation of LED fixtures have dedicated white LEDs, making them RGB + W. An improvment, definitely.
Thanks for your comments.
December 16th, 2008 at 7:48 am
Hi Rob,
Any info greatly appreciated!
I’ve recently started photographing live bands again and am coming up against some “interesting” white balance problems. The main problem is that my cameras (most digital cameras I believe) don’t yet have a setting for LED, and the other settings such as tungsten, fluorescent etc just don’t give a good result. Is there a standard colour temperature for these units? If not then I’ll have to set up a custom white balance but that’s not always convenient in the middle of a gig
December 16th, 2008 at 10:49 am
Hi Peter,
The colour of white LEDs can be expressed as a colour temperature (in Kelvin) but the actual number depends on the LED type. That can give you a headache as a gig photographer, with a mix of “open white” tungsten front light mixed in with other sources including LEDs.
I have just been talking to an LED expert who reminded me that Colour Rendering Index or CRI is another measure of colour temperature. It’s an indicator of the amount of the visible light spectrum output.
So, no standard colour temperature for LEDs. Sorry.
December 16th, 2008 at 12:51 pm
Thanks Rob – I suspected it wouldn’t be a simple option. Looks like I’ll be shooting a lot of black and white/greyscale from now on …
December 30th, 2008 at 11:10 pm
I’ve had some good experiences on Led pars while using together with conventional lighting. Eg. I had 16 pcs of led pars with 10mm by Eurolite, on a club-gig. They were on the back of the stage, focused upwards, flood-like beams creating a “wall of colour” into the haze, behind the band. It looked quite nice, plus the ability to do almost anything with these separately patched dmx-controlled fixtures. A solid colour, multiple colours, a colour chase or even a strobe effect.
I usually grab some of these cheaper led fixtures along when doing a pop/rock gig on a small or a middle-sized venue. Good for adding some spice to the show and maybe washing surfaces etc. Due to the low power consumption and heat emission so you can basically drop them around on the stage.
January 18th, 2009 at 6:44 pm
Hi there,
I’ve been doing a bit of video work and have an area with white flat walls. I like the idea of colour-changing led lamps to provide variable colour – either for plain background colours or for chroma-key.
However, video is pretty picky and tends to show up uneven illumination, so is the a LED lamp which could provide the variable colours and provide even illumination on a wall say 5m x 5m? I’m in quite a small space. I have some soft diffusor so possibly could put that on the lamp to ensure the lighting is very flat – but I do need a fair bit of light.
Can you recommend a really good way of getting flat, even lighting over this area that wouldn’t cost a fortune? (I’m demanding but cheap!). Based in the UK.
Thanks
Mark
January 18th, 2009 at 6:45 pm
…me again – should have said, I have some variable Dedolight aspherics lights for spotlighting / backlighting etc, so what I’m looking for is something to light the background behind a subject. Hope that makes sense – I’m not really a lighting person.
March 6th, 2009 at 7:21 pm
Hi
We are a live circuit band looking to buy some led par cans. We liked the idea of a 3 by 3 grid of pars and have also picked up from you that you get exactly what you pay for.
There seem to be a lot of very cheap budget cans on the market for £50 to £80 but we are not sure whether this would give us the quality we need.
So…..what sort of price should we be looking at per led par can to get reasonable quality based on the idea of having two 3 by 3s, and also can you recommend any specific manufacturers please? If we had a budget of £100 per par can would this be sufficient?
Many thanks.
March 6th, 2009 at 7:56 pm
@ Jukes – From a Lighting Designers point of view, cheap LED PAR cans have their weaknesses but we still use them. A lot of reputable lighting hire companies buy them to perform their function cheaply and ditch them when they break.
Not sure if a gigging band buying gear really needs high quality LED lighting, in all honesty. Cheap and cheerful all the way, if it was me.
Thanks for your comment.
March 6th, 2009 at 8:01 pm
@ Mark – Getting an even light is the same with any type of light source: No gaps, uniform throw distances etc. If you are planning on using video with LED, you might want to take a look at LED Lighting and Cameras.
Cheers
March 8th, 2009 at 5:58 pm
Hi people,
I have Eurolite Par 64 LED’s and a stairwell Par 56 – don’t worry about the cheaper 56’s – go with the 64’s.
I’m very happy with them: Connected to a DMX controller I can really vary the tone / mood of my solo singer/songwriter show.
Load in and out is way simplified with a road bag that fits a full 2 x 4 rig on the crossbeam – Plug and play !
Enjoy the music!
Matt
April 29th, 2009 at 11:50 pm
I am trying light 6 spandex shapes 16 x 16 for a graduation event. since the school has limited power and the LEDs not getting hot would be nice too. I want a bright wash of color it could shift to a different color but not like a dance club strob effect. what size of LED light should I look for I don’t have the budget for a DMX controller. (I have no budget and am buying this on my own) some units list foot candel 39 and some list Par-64 how do I compare with say 500 watts etc? As you can tell I need help! or should I just use par cans with gel? Thanks
May 4th, 2009 at 3:08 pm
Hi,
I heard a rumour that LED’s have a high failure rate in a theatre application, primarily due to heat sink issues.
Can you comment on the reliability issue.
thanks
J
May 4th, 2009 at 6:10 pm
Hi Jeremy – I think that it’s still too early to really tell where we stand on the reliability although I haven’t heard of any specific problems with heatsinks or cooling.
Many of the LED units I have worked with have been in high use areas such including exhibition stands which have been running 24hrs a day. I also don’t know of any co’s specific issues with LED hire stock which would infer inherent problems with LED as a robust light source.
I am aware of issues with build quality directly related to the purchase cost of the LED units in the first place. But that’s to be expected.
Let us know if you hear of anything further.
@ Ella – The kind of LED units best suited to your application depends on a number of factors, including position related to the surface. There are a number of decent “flood” like LED arrays that do a good colour wash (probably more use than PAR type LED) – although you don’t need a DMX controller, some of the units use a power supply that can also control some colour changes. Regarding power/brightness, most of the units in this kind of range output <500w of incandescent floodlight.
June 3rd, 2009 at 10:05 am
Your write up about the led fixure was good , but sometimes for me lacks clearity. I am setting out to explore this new world of lighting. I do like the low ampacity draw of this technology As for your comments about seleador, Bob’s fixtures use seven leds to achive remarkable results. Each primary spectrum has two chips, to acheive these results.
With the use of trichromatic chips in a single source, this helps eliminate the deaded color reflections that you mentioned. This is due to the rgb’s focal source. Also the intoduction of the zoom pc lens over each 1 or 3 att tri chips has ceated a focusable source.
Keep up the good work,
June 25th, 2009 at 7:14 pm
Hello,
I am looking into replacing the lobby/seating area lighting in my laser tag facility. We currently (unconventionally) use 27 par56 wfl with colored gels on 9 tracks of 3 lights each. While we are happy with the overall effect, we would like eliminate some heat and save on utility bills. I was hoping we could retrofit our existing cans with LED bulbs. Is this possible? They are used daily for 7-12 hours. I would be interested in hearing your recommendations.
Thanks!
Lesley
June 25th, 2009 at 7:23 pm
Hi Lesley. Usually, the most expensive bit of a PAR can is the lamp so time spent trying to retro fit with LED PAR56 lamps might not be worth it for minimal cost saving. A PAR can without a lamp is just a cheap lump of metal. Unless your PARs are specially adapted for the track (I assume that the track is not dimmed power) it’s probably just as easy to replace the can complete.
June 27th, 2009 at 12:18 pm
Hi Lesley,
As a follow up, a good site to try for LED Pars is:
http://www.stagelighting.co.uk/stage_lighting_store.htm
They currently have an offer on where many Pars are 1/2 price…
Hope this helps,
Alex
July 1st, 2009 at 2:33 am
Just a note to Rob, good work on keping your readers straight about conventionals, Most people look for the easiet fix for their lighting problems or solutions. Like you said leds are eye candy for the most part, On the low end of the spectrum. However on the high end, Trichromatic chips are solving the distored colors, (by giving them a focal point) portrayed by the individual rgb chips.
There is already a zoom rgb 1 watt or 3 watt trichromatic Par., It utilizing the k2 chip. the unit is available in 18, 24 and 30 Trichromatic k2 chips. The focus is acheived by the same number of small pc lenes. It uses a worm gear through the center of the pc lens plate. The design claims, 10-50 degrees.
I have one on order I will let you know the results I find. Now where did I put my DHL account number?
August 6th, 2009 at 12:00 pm
Hi, I’m new to stage lighting and looking for some advice. I manage a youth cafe and we have regular gigs for teenage bands. The venue is small and bands are usually 4-5 piece. I was advised to get a few LED par cans and am looking at getting 3 Lightmaxx LED par 56’s. I am just a bit worried that they might not be powerful enough. I tried 4 5w LED pars which were absolutely hopeless – I dont want to repeat the mistake. The ones I am looking at now have a power consumption of 20w each – is that a good enough indicator of power?
August 10th, 2009 at 11:34 am
Hi Keith – I wouldn’t use power consumption as an indicator of LED PAR brightness as a lot depends on the LED design. As a lot of these cheap LED units don’t usually provide a lot of information when it comes to photometrics, I would simply try before you buy.
September 10th, 2009 at 4:03 pm
Hi – I keep stumbling on this site and get the idea it’s a good source for honest lighting information and I really need some of that right now. I’m totally new to lighting and have been thrust into it because my wife and I are puppeteers and are currently building a small theater inside a 16 foot trailer. Any information about this venue is next to impossible to find because no one is doing this. It is a mobile outdoor theater traveling along the east coast. Because of the scale of puppet theater, the proximity of the lights, the ability of dimming is important. The inside of the theater is totally blacked out. The stage area opening is 8 feet wide by 4 feet deep and 3 and a half feet high. The playboard (stage floor) being only 12 inches in depth. There are two additional left and right stage wings behind front stage so a minimum of six LED floods would be necessary. Two LED fresnels for front of acting stage. Ceiling lights probably can not be used as they will be too close to the top of the puppet’s heads. Also will need back lighting for screen backcloths. From the wings the LED pars would only have to throw 4 feet to center stage. With such close distances I suppose I will have all kinds of troubles. At those distances I wonder if getting good white light is improved because white light is mainly what we need with these puppets and RGB for scenery. I want to use dedicated white LED’s for the puppets and RGB’s for scenery and effects. Dimming is also important to start, stop and move between acts. DMX software is planned as we will not have someone to run the lighting. Any recommendations and as to what size LED pars etc. to use would be helpful. Sorry for the long text.
September 13th, 2009 at 6:43 pm
Hi Trace,
As far as which fixtures to use, you really need to get some on demo to try them out. Information on LED kit, beam sizes, colours and brightness is pretty random and most LD’s will only specify kit they have tested rather than relying on the data. Find what fits your budget and try it before committing to buying anything.
Two points strike me about colour. If you really need a good white for the puppets, have you considered using straight white LED fixtures rather than RGB colour mixing ones. There are a few white LEDS with a decent CRI (the amount of the colour spectrum they output).
If you are planning on using RGB LEDs for the set, be careful with the set colours. LEDs have a habit of outputting a large amount of a very narrow wavelength, like a specfic blue for instance. This can really make certain reflected colours zing out if they happen to match this wavelength.
September 15th, 2009 at 1:14 am
check out Seledor/ETC wash units, nice even washes and they can match the Rosco line up of color. Rob’s right about led wavelengths. In china the low cost ones just buy chinese Silan chips. the Q.C. is not the best so wavelenghts can vary from batch to batch. This will always be an issue between manufactures chips.
October 5th, 2009 at 10:13 pm
Thanks for the information regarding LED fixtures – not the sort of thing that appears in the sales literature! Most of the dealer sites I have looked at (e.g. Thomann) imply that LED’s are pretty much equivalent to their tungsten counterparts, but the light output figures are conspicuous by their absence!
I’m faced with buying some portable lighting for a small theatre group, and am attracted to a pair of NJD Spectres for general illumination. Similar money would buy a couple of conventional lighting bars, but that complicates the dimming and control side, which needs to be simple as I also manage the sound reinforcement!
Any thoughts or advice welcomed…
October 6th, 2009 at 1:49 pm
James , the best bang for the buck is the Selecon acclaim series fixtures. The fresnel and P.C. with doors is best way to use them. Add a gel changer with cue fades and you have a great combinaation. For control try the DMX soft, software it is very cost effective, and a good solution to control
October 6th, 2009 at 3:13 pm
Hi James P. If you are looking for portable lighting for a theatre group, I wouldn’t consider units like the NJD or LED PARs as general lighting. Even though conventional fixtures require dimming kit as well as control, the light they produce is suitably controllable and good enough to “light” stuff (for visibility).
Options like LEDs are great to colour and add effect, but very few would be suitable for general illumination. Especially not at the price point you would be looking at in your situation.
Thanks for your question.
October 6th, 2009 at 4:15 pm
Thank you both for the prompt response! I have to admit that this is newish area for me, as I’m more familiar with sound than light, and although there is a huge amount of choice, objective information about much of it is lacking. As Rob suggests, the budget is the chief constraint, and while I get the impression that LED’s are beginning to cut it at the expensive end, it’s difficult to know the provenance of budget items.
I hadn’t come across the Selecons, so will go looking now. I’d rather control manually, I think, as I’m only too familiar with computer crashes!
October 7th, 2009 at 8:20 am
As a matter of interest, Rob, why not the NJD’s (or possibly iColour equivalent)? Is it that mixed colour doesn’t give a true white, or the lack of focussing, or just general construction/reliability?
We’ve got by in the past with assorted floodlights and no control beyond on/off switches, so almost anything would be an improvement!
October 7th, 2009 at 7:28 pm
@James P.
If you have so far got by using odd floods and on/off switches, I can see why you might not get where I’m coming from on this one. All these kinds of units are not lights (as anyone trying to light a performance would understand them) They are “coloured light blasting equipment”. Lighting any size of show succesfully requires the light sources to be reasonably controllable, have a good colour rendition and a decent quality of even light.
That’s not to say they don’t have their place, I just wouldn’t be using them as a starting point. 500W fresnels are the staple light source of all kind of small scale shows for good reason.
Mixing colours additively with this kind of gear invariably ends up with a dirty, uneven and unpleasant whitish light that just doesn’t compare to a tungsten fresnel. If you want white, use a white light source. Need colour, use gel. The best tool for your job is unlikely to be found in the DJ FX section of a music shop.
Hope this has helped you to understand a bit more, without sounding ranty. Best wishes
October 8th, 2009 at 10:23 am
“The best tool for your job is unlikely to be found in the DJ FX section of a music shop”
Fair comment! I do hear what you say, and I suspect that a few PAR lights with a mixture of flood and spot bulbs might be a better starting point. The budget might run to a couple of fresnels, although that won’t leave much (!) for control gear. I’d quite like to keep that local (ie. on the light stands) rather than have long runs of chunky (and electrically noisy when dimming) mains cables. Any thoughts or recommendations?
Thanks for the input, BTW. Much appreciated.
October 14th, 2009 at 9:05 am
Hi James,
PARs are fine for a variety of uses, especially with well chosen lamps in them. The only thing to remember is that while PAR units can be relatively cheap, the lamps are not so.
Localised dimmers are idea for stands, the usual being 3/4 channel. There are plenty to choose from in various price bands. I don’t have a lot of experience with the cheapest but for professionals we regularly use small dimmers from Pulsar and Zero88 in the UK.
October 14th, 2009 at 9:41 am
Thanks, Rob
PAR56 bulbs seem to be around £10-12 online, which doesn’t sound too bad (although I realise you can also buy the cans for similar money!)
Is there any point in spending more? Given the physics, I assume that they all have a similar life, but I appreciate that quality control might make a difference…
October 14th, 2009 at 12:02 pm
as we say in the states motor oil is motor oil, or blue is blue,just finish so we can go home.
As for pars the brand name does make a difference, In the usa G.E. is the brand of choice, while philips and sylvania Osram are a distant second. I have found that usually their are one or two bad right out of the box.. Stay away from the chinese brands, wasted monies
November 9th, 2009 at 4:36 pm
We are thinking og going to LED lighting in our church sanctuary. I’m concerned about the throw distance of LED’s. Where can I find the throw distance of a LED PAR 64 PRO and other LED lights?
November 19th, 2009 at 9:58 am
Funnily enough, our church is also considering LED lighting, largely prompted by H&S rules that now prevent churchwardens climbing ladders to change bulbs (!). We had a visit from a local lighting supplier and I thought the LED downlights were dismal. Very cold and not very bright – the old 300W halogens looked very good by comparison. I think LED’s can provide nice colour accenting of stonework, for instance, but for general lighting I was not impressed.
November 20th, 2009 at 10:13 pm
Displaying my ignorance here, I suspect, but if I have two DMX dimmers set to the same start address, will they operate in tandem when the same channels are controlled externally?
Thanks
November 24th, 2009 at 8:55 am
@ James P, yes, they will. Doubling up addresses is an occasionally useful technique if you need to control a large powered rig with not enough desk channels. Obviously, you have to be careful choosing which fixtures end up running in tandem so you retain a good level of intensity control.
November 24th, 2009 at 10:11 am
Thank you, Rob. I was hoping that would be the case! You’ll be pleased to know that we’ve settled on a simple rig with PAR56’s, a couple of fresnels and gels for colour, with no LED’s or colour mixers. I’m sure LED’s will make inroads eventually, but for decent light levels, halogens still seem far superior.
February 2nd, 2010 at 2:24 pm
Hi Rob, My band have been using a simple set up of four par64 cans with coloured gels for a few years now. We have a little four channel dimmer which we power them through and we leave the sliders static. This is very limited. We tried using the lights as ’sound activated’ but could never get over the problem of the lights all going out each time we finished a song, leaving everyone in darkness!
I’m in the process of sourcing four Par64 DMX LED cans, which I hope to use with a DMX controller. As we don’t have an extra pair of hands to manage the lights we will again be depending on a simple automatic chase sequence to react to the band’s music and add a bit more life to the lighting. We can then use the old par cans as floor standing lights. Are there any particular DMX controllers that will do the job and do you know if they will allow me to set lights to ‘on’ when the music stops? I realise that we can still leave the old Par64s on in between songs but if there are any occasions when we are short of space, we’ll be leaving these behind.
Thanks
Steve
February 4th, 2010 at 3:07 pm
Steve, you can use a software controller, EASY SOFT is affordable and a snap to use. You could also use sunlite, it has a 10 pin port on the box, it is a trigger for allowing you to access 8 scenes that you create on the computer. You down load the scenes into the hardware box(dongle). You can make a simple foot switch box with. eight on-off switches to recall the scenes. Just a thought
Mark